Curse

mqstout · Dec 19, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

- We wanted raids, we got raids. ...

Elite skills - ..., they're now adding pve only skills. That's a massive can of worms they just opened, but maybe we'll get overpowered monster style skills in future campaigns.

First: No, most people wanted stuff to do at end game (end game content that is able to be done and repeated with fun). NOT "elite missions" like Factions and Nightfall have added, that are areas that just require gimmick builds (the required Rebirth across a wall skills in The Deep, anyone?), punish balanced play, and are really unable to be done by nearly the entire population of the game. And to add insult to injury, they put something not even remotely an 'elite' reward but is something every basic player wants deep behind the elite area (aka, the ritualist hero).

Secondly: I sure hope we don't get skills. I'm already disappointed with premise of the PvE-only skills. I hope things don't escalate in that direction any more. (Celestial skills worked okay.)

Gli · Dec 19, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

- We wanted raids, we got raids.

We wanted raids? That's news to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I honestly don't get people who think SF was just such a damn good "elite" area.

I honestly don't think anyone does think of SF as an "elite" area. I mean, it's far too much fun to be considered an elite area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

UW and FoW are also not what players are clamoring for; no one goes in there to quest, they go in there to farm.

Worthless assumption. You don't have the first clue what other people are doing in the game. That sentence tells me more about yourself than about the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

ANet finally made an elite area that's nigh-impossible to farm, where the quests are what matter, and of course people don't like it, because there is no easy way to get Tormented weapons except to do the quests over and over again.

You know, anyone who loves Guild Wars has no problem at all with doing the same stuff over and over again. It's either that or not playing at all after a few months. So, if doing the quests over and over again is not the problem, what is? The utter lack of fun in those areas, perhaps?

And nigh-impossible to farm? Funny, two weeks in and the Stygian area is already so badly overfarmed, that Stygian gems are dropping in price faster than any item ever before. I already bought 2 for 11k last night. The seller was desperate to get rid of them.

lacasner · Dec 19, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Hmm..well before anything is said from me, I do have to congratulate Anet on the updates they made on the game. Yes, they updated the game, but I cannot say they improved the game. Let me explain if I can what I mean.

Ya, I know all of this stuff that they added is cool. However, here is a reason for my skepticism about all of it. Really, it would only come in handy, at least for me, in the prime of my guild wars playing experience. (the first few months). After the first campaign was done for me, and the 2nd (which took roughly 2-3 weeks to do for both), I started making money. And pvping. I did pvp, because I thought when I was buying guild wars this was one of the best features ever. That for an mmo, (or whatever this game is anymore) pvping is balanced and skill based.

Without more open-endedness in pve though, my attention was lost. And after my FoW and crystalline shiz was accumulated, basically I lost interest in the game. I did not overplay it though, hell because I played the market correctly I got this stuff in over 1 month or so, not more than 1.5 months. And that is just going around Ascalon and L.A. looking for good deals, spamming never did shit for me.

I don't know why people make a big deal though with pve being unbalanced. Hell, I may be retarded and I may be the only one here who thinks this but wouldn't it be better if pve and pvp were spread apart firmly. I mean, the pvers don't really pvp, and pvpers dont pve, so why try to weave these two
things together. A Pve-primary player, like me, want to develop my character, and want more open-endedness. I don't really know how this would be done, but I think it would make this games longevity increase a lot more.

Anyway, if I got a little off track there I'm sorry, I don't know if I explained what I wanted to say really well

. But, to me these "updates' are a little too late. I can't say Guild Wars will die though. But, I do forsee a takeover with these new mmo's coming out. They look really promising, I cannot deny that. This game will stay, but like Anet always makes us adapt, they will have to take a taste of their own medicine shortly.

gabrial heart · Dec 19, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The moment heroway gets killed, complaining about rank discrimination resumes. Former Ruling said it well, but I think being able to beat heroway is a better test of skill than "rank 5" ever was.

I think the biggest complaint is that there isn't a challange. When i ha i would venture to say that 80% is hero/henchway. Not very challenging at all on top of the fact that it's player vs player, which hero battles are around for heroway. But yes i've been with rank 10 folks that are confused about builds and really don't know how to run them.

gabrial heart · Dec 19, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

First: No, most people wanted stuff to do at end game (end game content that is able to be done and repeated with fun). NOT "elite missions" like Factions and Nightfall have added, that are areas that just require gimmick builds (the required Rebirth across a wall skills in The Deep, anyone?), punish balanced play, and are really unable to be done by nearly the entire population of the game. And to add insult to injury, they put something not even remotely an 'elite' reward but is something every basic player wants deep behind the elite area (aka, the ritualist hero).

Secondly: I sure hope we don't get skills. I'm already disappointed with premise of the PvE-only skills. I hope things don't escalate in that direction any more. (Celestial skills worked okay.)

yeah i agree that end-game content is important, in as much as very difficult end-game content isn't as much *fun* for most folks. There is an awful lot of complaining about DOA (way more so it seems then any area before), perhaps there will be gimmick builds at some point that will make them cake walks, but with the globals it might be awhile. Factions elite areas don't really have any MAJOR gimmick builds, like sf and tombs do. None the less, i still do sf because i still enjoy it and a ton of people that i know still do tombs almost daily. I guess we are gluttens.

I'm not sure how i feel about the pve only skills, but i can say that i've heard a ton of people asking for them even more and complaining the elite is seriously gimped.

mqstout · Dec 19, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

There is an awful lot of complaining about DOA (way more so it seems then any area before)

A lot of that extra loud complaining about it is because of the non sequitur of it containing the (THE) ritualist hero as its primary reward. The few elite-content-mongers feel slighted because they get nothing they want from it, and the rest of the game feel dumped on because they'll never be able to get a ritualist hero.

lacasner · Dec 19, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You know, anyone who loves Guild Wars has no problem at all with doing the same stuff over and over again.

This is so wrong...

Gwmaster · Dec 19, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

am i the only one who would pay another 50$ for the original gw? i think im nostalgic...i miss the old gw so much

lacasner · Dec 19, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I would as well

twicky_kid · Dec 20, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

DoA = for highly elite

Fow and UW = the medicore elite

Deep and Urgoz = good fun

More storage = buy more slots. Storage cost server space which cost money. Anet has given us material storage and now the event item storage for free.

HA has always been broken. First it was spirit spam, then IWAY, then blood spike, then 6 man holding teams. Here's a bigger challenge name one time that HA was NOT broken.

This has been said so many times but I'll say it again. Lvl 20 means nothing. There is no difference between being a lvl 20 having 500 life taking 50 dmg than being at lvl 40 having 1000 life taking 100 dmg.

Its just bigger numbers that still boil down to the same ratio of dmg taken compared to max life. So why not cap it so casual players don't have to grind for months to be able to compete and have fun?

NoChance · Dec 20, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

here's what I think about some of the issues:

storage: I really think there is a need for unlimited armor and customized weapon storage -- players like to collect armor and weapons, and it's not fun to have to dump old ones when new ones come out. I don't think that armor and customized weapon storage would affect the game economy in a negative way, since they essentially can't be traded.

as for more general storage slots -- I don't think we need that.. we will always fill up our storage slots no matter how many we have, then complain that we don't have even more.

level cap: one of the main ideas behind guild wars is the low level cap -- so that gameplay is determined primarily by your ability in making and playing good builds. This is fantastic!!

like someone mentioned the Lightbringer ranks is in a way raising the level cap, but the good thing is that it's local to Nightfall. This "local raising of level cap" is a great idea because if someone misses a few chapters and buys the newest one, they can jump right into that chapter without needing to level up through all the new levels introduced in the chapters he missed.

randomized chest drops: to be honest, the way it was before, though great for chest farming, was broken -- it was never intended to be that way, and it's good that it's fixed.

what I would like to see: henchies in the Underworld and FoW -- why not?!

jimmy_logic · Dec 20, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Been playing on and off as a semi regular player since the release of Guild Wars cramming in all my play time after work and during the weekend. With my time even more lacking soon I am glad that I can still pick up this game and play with everyone without having the feeling of being left behind.

Amen to a game that prides itself over skill instead of elitism. Yes there are parts of the game that require grind, but hey they aren't necessary to compete competively.

Curse You · Dec 20, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

I wouldn't care very much if they removed level caps in PvE. Might enjoy using my level 198 necromancer... (that's his "theoretical level) *sarcasm*

I don't think the game is dying, yet. There are some big changes planned for very soon, and they might greatly improve the gameplay, just wait.

Thallandor · Dec 20, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

There was a time i felt the same way as the OP post factions release so i wont blame him for feeling the way he does.

In alot of ways, we got what we asked for in Nightfall, solution for bad PuGs, easier participation in HA, a story line that dont suck, better cutscences, more challenging end game area...etc but not all without their own consequences i admit. Not all changes and features makes everyone happy, its only normal since we all have different preferences.

The only thing i can contribute perhaps is to point out that our wishes and suggesstions can be dangerous to a genie that listens and grants wishes literally. Be careful of what you ask for. Beyond that, there are hints of improvements and changes on the horizon and perhaps hope.

Dont give up and hang in there, we have pulled through thus far, give Anet more time.

twicky_kid · Dec 20, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

One thing you have to remember is that every 2 years there is going to be a new generation of people coming into an age to play GW. I've seen some 9 year olds that were better than most adults.

Since GW is going to be around for a few years it can keep rehashing sales on just new kids. Eventually you are going to want access to the skills so most players will buy every chapter. GW isn't going anywhere for a very long time.

Rusty Deth · Dec 20, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scutilla

Skyy High, you just shut down most of the major complaints beautifully. I applaud your post.

Same here, good job Skyy High!!

Spura · Dec 20, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

- We wanted raids, we got raids. I honestly don't get people who think SF was just such a damn good "elite" area. It's not elite, it's pretty much the same difficulty as the hardest areas of the southern shiverpeaks, save the flame djinns and the final boss. UW and FoW are also not what players are clamoring for; no one goes in there to quest, they go in there to farm. ANet finally made an elite area that's nigh-impossible to farm, where the quests are what matter, and of course people don't like it, because there is no easy way to get Tormented weapons except to do the quests over and over again.

Except I don't like the class/build elitism in ToA.

Aegeroth · Dec 20, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwmaster

am i the only one who would pay another 50$ for the original gw? i think im nostalgic...i miss the old gw so much

Ah yes the old days.
How we all miss those days.

I myself, blame the rapid expansion of problems on forums.
With forums large amount of players ask for different things and complain about different things. By using these we open up each other's eyes on certain subjects. Thus creating more complaints and demands. As Thallandor said, ANet is the genie who acts litterally, without mass complaining our views can be mixed up and easily confused, thus more problems emergy. So we go and pin the problems on ANet and say "fix it".

But then again Pin the blame on the Cause isn't the best game to be playing when people are argueing about whos right, whos wrong. If anything creative minds like that of Skyy and, the rest of the community, should come together, not to complain, but suggest ways of ridding the problem more often, no doubt this happens, but very rarely mabye?

Yes, Prophecies was the golden age, the lack of toys meant we found our own things to do, now that we are given toys, we complain about how "the leg won't move properly" or "it's too hard to use". Wake up, see the light, play the game for what it is.

Don't ask for Storage. You don't need fancy 3 sets of 15k to play the game on 1 charcter, sure, materials was a wiser idea due to the large amount of materials, but seriously don't ask for more space without good reason.

For those of you who ask for more skills or more weapons. Open your eyes, it's rather easy. Go ahead and compare the skills of Guild Wars to some other top knotch games, yes, the games are different, but the skill variety and system is the best i have ever seen.

Elite Areas. Elite. Hard. It's meant for hardcore's who don't give up till they get or they die. And if you can do it, oh well, it's not so elite is it? Don't Complain.

Could go on with more stuff but i can't be bothered.

Solutions > Whining.

Clone · Dec 20, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

A lot of that extra loud complaining about it is because of the non sequitur of it containing the (THE) ritualist hero as its primary reward. The few elite-content-mongers feel slighted because they get nothing they want from it, and the rest of the game feel dumped on because they'll never be able to get a ritualist hero.

Yeah, I've got to agree here. While I really don't feel the game is dying as fast as the OP would suggest, I really do hate DoA. It is an area that isn't for everyone. Why Anet spends this much effort working on areas so many people dislike is another matter, but I'll try not to dwell on that too much. I just think removing the restrictions for the hero would cut back on a lot of the complaints. It may make DoA completely uninhabited, but if that happens, Anet should look at why people don't like the area itself, not whether there's a good enough reward on the other side to keep people trying to go there.

gabrial heart · Dec 20, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

To everyone, thanks for the input. I'm not feeling bad in anyway about the meta game, again i'm just pointing out the complaints i hear and read on a regular basis, which does affect the community to some extent.

-As to when ha was never broken, i would say before you could bring heros in. Alex just made post about this issue in dev tracker and it's a pretty big one if the devs are quiling about it. Henchway faction farming has went on until the release of factions and the zashen challenge. i ha every night almost and it's 80% heroway. I know the 1337 crap that goes on in there, but there are plenty of good unranked or *dont care about rank* folks to.

-Localized *faux level cap raising* with lightbringer, yes i believe thats what a lot of pve folks want, more power, better 1337 skills like that for a goal to reach. Unfortunately the elite skill is pretty crap. The pve game is all about killing big groups of baddies and getting uber rare random drops. DoA is really a bust and thats not just my opinion either. now that folks are starting to complete, theres a rather large disapointment about the end game re-skinned (screams of *crapola*) weapon drops. Razah (not to mention he was put in the manual to be variable) really isn't that tough to get.

- The really large cry about storage comes now when pve folks have to outfit heros, change the armor (which is even more rune/insignia/weapon/etc) storage then ever before and i think it's justified. As far as server costs to add 25 more slots or an armor storage tab, i dont think it's much. I can spend quite a bit of time swapping from a mule to another character's heros to equip them properly, which goes without saying if i had all the weapons i needed for all my characters heros i'd need even more storage, which doesn't even include keys/coins/reqs/dye/contracts/etc.. Storage was an issue before, but adding all these new features (3 new dies and trade items) has made long standing players required to have a mule.

-As far as chests, I personally have never been a big chest person but i do miss the days when one person could test out a chest and know whether it was worth using a sometimes 1.5k key on it. I think some folks are talking about a skeleton key which would open numerous chests (5-10 maybe) and might help to silence the cries over the randomness change, if nothing else it might just help the storage issues.

I truly think if chapter 4 comes out with the bugs/missing/incomplete features that nf came out with, there will be a rather large decline in the player base. I do understand that it takes a lot of time and energy to create a game like nf and there will be bugs and such, but a huge number players aren't that understanding either

I think a-net needs to be a little more careful.